Cena's return...

[Batista Rules.]

Has anyone else felt that Cena hasn't done anything since his return?

There was the Royal Rumble and that was it, after that they just built up to NWO, where no-one was surprised how Orton beat him, even with Cena, they weren't going to give him the title that quickly. And that was an ok match, nothing special at all. Then there was Wrestlemania, they litterally did nothing inbetween, their WM match was short, un-entertaining but none the less unpredictable. There were plenty of better matches before it.

So, WWE has given us three poor returns, JBL, Jericho and Cena, and I wonder if Hardy will be the fourth.

[Gair]

I think that Cena's character needs a drastic change...

I think if he'd swerved and helped Orton win the title at WM making one of the biggest turns in WWE history, would have gave Cena a huuuuuuge heelness... The kids wouldn't love him anymore, and he'd get complete heat from the fans!

It's such a shame nobody else can see this!!!

Gair

[nidge182]

i am in agreement, since his return hes pretty much been going through the motions its one of the worst returns of a supposed big star i have seen, As for jeffs come back well if anyone remembers when Orton got his first title he had it cut short because of steroid use or whatever he was using and they stuck him up against carlito and masters in the Intercontinental feud and made him work his way back up and its only since he won the title that he is getting his run back, now if this is anything to go by then jeff will probably find himself stuck up against the middle card wrestlers again,However with the heat jeff was getting he might just go strait back into the title contenders list.

[Mr Mickie James]

I think that Cena's character needs a drastic change...

The kids wouldn't love him anymore, and he'd get complete heat from the fans!

That is the exact reason Cena will not turn heel. He is the WWE's biggest draw and I think that would seriously hurt his merch sales, which are flying off the shelves. They have a new Cena shirt every 2 months.

[Hookz]

yah Cena is big on the kids whitch equals money. Then again it doesn't matter anymore people like the bad guy to. Wrestling is not what it once was.

[Batista Rules.]

The heels suck nowadays.

Randy Orton is not a really credible heel IMO, because he's semi-dominant which means he can't be a coward, which makes a good heel, or a reeaaly dominant heel, just an average superstar.

Edge is great and everything, but I really don't like him for some reason; he doesn't get alot of heat. Or not enough for the top heel anyway...

A good example of a good heel is Umaga, if he had a mouthpiece (enter Estrada) then he could be a great WWE Champion.

[Gair]

Estrada was excellent as the mouthpiece of Umaga...

"Everybodee Listehn, eh heeh"

Love him...

[Batista Rules.]

LOL! Gair, you could be Umaga's next mouthpiece!

*Gair walks on stage.*

Gair: Everyone listen, like!

[jacksimon123]

Look John cena is the best he should have won but randy had to cheat thats why i and everybody hates randy because he thinks he can beat anyone, but if cena had orton alone cena would dominate and take his title back witch he rightfully should get as for Triple h well he deservs it more than orton but not as much as cena i mean orton tore his bicep and kicked his fathers head frankly the odds add up so that cena should get more than triple h

[jacksimon123]

Umaga is great but not without a mouth i mean he cant speak for crap

[Drakon]

Look John cena is the best he should have won but randy had to cheat thats why i and everybody hates randy because he thinks he can beat anyone, but if cena had orton alone cena would dominate and take his title back witch he rightfully should get as for Triple h well he deservs it more than orton but not as much as cena i mean orton tore his bicep and kicked his fathers head frankly the odds add up so that cena should get more than triple h


...Did you know wrestling was scripted? Yes, I was shocked too...

[BenKilledThePromQueen]

Look John cena is the best he should have won but randy had to cheat thats why i and everybody hates randy because he thinks he can beat anyone, but if cena had orton alone cena would dominate and take his title back witch he rightfully should get as for Triple h well he deservs it more than orton but not as much as cena i mean orton tore his bicep and kicked his fathers head frankly the odds add up so that cena should get more than triple h

Why do you hate punctuation so much?

Never been a fan of John Cena. As a wrestler, yeah, he's got some talent. But I think he'd go across better without the gangster gimmick. John Cena's gimmick, along with getting sick of watching JBL every single week, is the main reason i stopped watching WWE.

[Slice]

LOL! Gair, you could be Umaga's next mouthpiece!

*Gair walks on stage.*

Gair: Everyone listen, like!

*lobbies for gair/ollie managerial team*

[Mr Mickie James]

Look John cena is the best he should have won but randy had to cheat thats why i and everybody hates randy because he thinks he can beat anyone, but if cena had orton alone cena would dominate and take his title back witch he rightfully should get as for Triple h well he deservs it more than orton but not as much as cena i mean orton tore his bicep and kicked his fathers head frankly the odds add up so that cena should get more than triple h
Cena fanboy, That is amazing. One Sentence. I bet you are 12 years old... but I second guess that. They would have taught you punctuation by now. I couldnt even read the first two lines.

[jacksimon123]

Now can we talk about john first randy should not have the title in the first place the only way he got when john was weak and had already faced triple h and umaga thats how randy got the title but mark my words john will get it back because everybody likes john and if randy keeps the title for to longer people will stop watching because if randy has the title and people hate him Mr. Mcmahon loses money and if Mr. Mcmahon loses money the wrestlers lose some money in there pay checks and if the wrestlers get less money the wrestlers quit and if the wrestlers quit NO MORE WWE!!

ok your right mickie and your right that i am cenas biggest fan

Don't double post, post's merged.

~Batista Rules.

[Batista Rules.]

Cena fanboy, That is amazing. One Sentence. I bet you are 12 years old... but I second guess that. They would have taught you punctuation by now. I couldnt even read the first two lines.

Come on, give the kid a break, you don't want to loose us a member, do you?

We were all new once, so he needs to be a little educated, but everyone can learn, right?

[nidge182]

...Did you know wrestling was scripted? Yes, I was shocked too...
LMFAO!!!!! the best use of sarcasm i have heard this year :D:D

[Jerichoholic]

Cenas, JBL and Y2J's returns were very very weak...

WWE needs some new script writters, simple!

[Drakon]

Now can we talk about john first randy should not have the title in the first place the only way he got when john was weak and had already faced triple h and umaga thats how randy got the title but mark my words john will get it back because everybody likes john and if randy keeps the title for to longer people will stop watching because if randy has the title and people hate him Mr. Mcmahon loses money and if Mr. Mcmahon loses money the wrestlers lose some money in there pay checks and if the wrestlers get less money the wrestlers quit and if the wrestlers quit NO MORE WWE!!



Oh wow. I'm very confused right now. This is hilarius, yet I can't seem to find my laugh =/

Since when has everybody liked John Cena? About 75% of this site's active members hate him, including me... You're probably the first person I've heard that hates Randy Orton's reign. So far it has been great. More people have been in Main Events and new angles have been shown. With Cena on top that never happened.

And just so you can see how wrestling is scripted, here's what would have happened if Jeff Hardy was to maintain his spot in the Money in the Bank match...

It was reported earlier this week that the original plans for the MITB ladder match were for Jeff Hardy to win the match and cash in his title opportunity later in the night to defeat Randy Orton for the WWE Championship. The triple threat match for the WWE Championship would have been a lot more brutal so that Orton didn't come off looking weak. The plan was for Jeff Hardy to hold the title up until Vengeance so that he could drop it to either Orton, John Cena or Triple H so that a major WWE Championship match with two of those three superstars could occur at SummerSlam.


Everything is planned. Orton didn't win at WrestleMania because he cheated, he won because the people backstage said so.

[Jake_V3]

First things first....I hate Cena, and if would have been OK for me to hate him if he was a heel.


Here what i think of when i think of Cena. To understand the following statement you first need to look at how i see Cena's charecter development(or lack there of)

-Cena comes out with a "Blue-Chipper" gimmick, which in other words is a young upstart wrestler without a personality who is only here to "prove himself"....this didn't last long.

-Then he is repackaged as a whigger....now if you look at WWE fans(in America) most of them are rednecks(Sorry to be honest.....the majority of the ones i know are rednecks) So bringing a whigger up as a heel is genious(Remember Bull Buchanan was his "enforcer" and was named B-Squared) The heel thing goes on for a while until WWE relises they need a midcard face for SD(at the time you have guys like Kenzo Sazuki and Renee Dupree as midcard heels) So they turn Cena face....BUT DON"T DROP THE "GANGSTA" GIMMICK, they just add the fact that he is American....so he is a heel against the foreigner....(Now if there is anything a redneck hates more than a "Gangsta" its a foreigner)

Anyways I feel the "Gangsta" gimmick should have been like Edge's gothic gimmick....only used as a way to get them over until there mic skill give them a certain unique quality to their charecter.

Now to put this into prospective look at Disco Inferno......Same Gimmick through his whole WCW career.....a throw back guy from the 70's who was cowardly and lame.....everyone was supposed to hate him..... They never suddenly went..."Hey lets make Disco a disco dancing babyface....people love disco" no they kept him a heel until the end, and they surely never made him into a main eventer.....whacky gimmicks like a disco dancer, a pirate, a viking, a dog catcher or a "Gangsta(That looks like a white guy from the suburbs) should NOT BE IN THE MAIN EVENT

Basically if they would have given Cena a new gimmick or kept him heel i would have been happy with the character.




****Upon some further research i found out Cena's gimmick change came around the time the Jamie Kennedy movie "Malibu's Most Wanted" came out.....coincidence.....I THINK NOT*****


2. Kennedy=Best heel in the WWE

[Batista Rules.]

probably the first person I've heard that hates Randy Orton's reign. So far it has been great. More people have been in Main Events and new angles have been shown. With Cena on top that never happened.

Come on now, that's a bit unfair.

With Cena on top, plenty of new people got to try their hand at the WWE Championship. Lets start from his first reign.

-Jericho
-Christian
-Kurt Angle
-Muhammed Hassan
-Angle, Kane, Michaels, Chris Masters and Carlito. (In the Elimination Chamber..)
-Edge (Cashed in MITB after the Elim Chamber...)

Ok, now onto his second reign.

-Triple H
-Rob Van Dam
-Edge

Third.

(-K-Fed)
-Rob Van Dam
-Umaga (twice)
-Shawn Michaels
-Orton
-Edge
-Khali

Oh and something else I just found.

Despite his injury, Cena attended the annual WWE Tribute to the Troops show filmed at Camp Speicher in Tikrit, Iraq on December 7, and aired on December 24

I mean you guys don't even give him respect.

I hate Cena

About 75% of this site's active members hate him, including me...

[Gair]

Come on now, that's a bit unfair.

With Cena on top, plenty of new people got to try their hand at the WWE Championship. Lets start from his first reign.

-Jericho
-Christian
-Kurt Angle
-Muhammed Hassan
-Angle, Kane, Michaels, Chris Masters and Carlito. (In the Elimination Chamber..)
-Edge (Cashed in MITB after the Elim Chamber...)

Ok, now onto his second reign.

-Triple H
-Rob Van Dam
-Edge

Third.

(-K-Fed)
-Rob Van Dam
-Umaga (twice)
-Shawn Michaels
-Orton
-Edge
-Khali

Oh and something else I just found.



I mean you guys don't even give him respect.

Good post mate...

I, however, hate his gimmick...

Jakes post got it spot on, and theres no denying that his gimmick is drier than a 40 year old ugly woman...

Gair

[nidge182]

The WWE should take advantage of the fans dislike for him and make him Heel, he would be a great heel if they dont mess it up, change his persona and everything just make him a nasty piece of work they would be in to a sure fire winner with that.
The Cena chaingang/rapper deal has got stale very fast, Hogan has always had the hulkamaniacs deal even when he was Hollywood he was still getting cheers from sections of the crowd and the you have Triple H with the who Game thing which has lasted nearly 10 years so they can surely find something to push Cena and get him a lot more respect.
This respect thing is going a bit far now as a lot of people are taking it as a personal thing towards Cena the man and not Cena the gimmick, the only thing i dislike about Cena is his character but the man behind the character has to be respected as he does a lot for so many charities and as we have seen people with more popularity and money than him do a whole lot less.

[Batista Rules.]

Thank you nidge, good post.

The WWE should take advantage of the fans dislike for him and make him Heel, he would be a great heel if they dont mess it up, change his persona and everything just make him a nasty piece of work they would be in to a sure fire winner with that.

Yes they should, but it wouldn't be good for business. Reguardless of what other fans think, Cena merchandise sells like hotcakes. And WWE would loose alot of money if they turned Cena heel.

[nidge182]

The thing is if he turned heel then at somepoint he may go the way of The Rock and Triple H as they seem to get more popular after they became heels, Triple H has been flipped from Heel to Face more times than most of the top stars and he in my oppinion is the best wrestler as a face or as a heel he just has the perfect charisma, i wouldnt mind Cena being tested in the same way as it was the fact he started getting bigger and better when he was a heel. I just feel he needs a change in some capacity. Fans get sick of the same thing happening week in week out. Even the Great One started getting booed so they had to change his persona a touch. But Triple H has always had a change in persona and he still gets cheered as much as he did in his DX days so i dont see it doing a lot of harm, and to be honest like the WWE need more money lol :D:D

[Simpleton.]

Thank you nidge, good post.



Yes they should, but it wouldn't be good for business. Reguardless of what other fans think, Cena merchandise sells like hotcakes. And WWE would loose alot of money if they turned Cena heel.

You say this, yes - but you're not really taking into account the other superstars working for the WWE. If they turn Cena heel, to restore the balance, they can turn someone face.

Here are some possibilities for a face turn:

MVP
Mr. Kennedy
Umaga (has been tried before, didn't work out that well, and wouldn't really sell any merchandise but he's still a possibility)
Shawn Michaels (he's a tweener in my eyes but he's being shifted towards heel-dom. A nice shave will do the trick.)

And to be honest, any of these would be nice feuds. A Cena feud with MVP would be fresh, original and can showcase the talent that MVP has. If he doesn't work out well as a face then he can easily be changed back again, like Orton in 2004 shortly after he won the World Title.

Cena and Kennedy - two of the brightest superstars on the microphone. This would be an intense feud and I think Kennedy would do well as a face if the WWE went the right way about it.

Umaga and HBK with Cena has happened before but it could easily happen again.

A heel turn for Cena would, in my opinion, help the WWE. A bunch of people don't like Cena because of his superman-like streak that happened where he'd win all his title defenses etc. So if he is turned heel, there is more reason for these "commercial" fans to hate him. It's a win-win situation. People tune in to the show so they can boo Cena and pretend to get him in a headlock.

WWE did the right move earlier this year with Cena winning the Rumble. Things went downhill at the Elimination Chambers, two of the most predictable matches I've ever encountered. But they can easily get themselves back up on their feet - they just have to go the right way about it.

[Batista Rules.]

You say this, yes - but you're not really taking into account the other superstars working for the WWE. If they turn Cena heel, to restore the balance, they can turn someone face.

Here are some possibilities for a face turn:

MVP
Mr. Kennedy
Umaga (has been tried before, didn't work out that well, and wouldn't really sell any merchandise but he's still a possibility)
Shawn Michaels (he's a tweener in my eyes but he's being shifted towards heel-dom. A nice shave will do the trick.)

MVP as a face would totally suck, I mean he really would. He should just keep to being heel becase at the end of the day, he's a guy all the fans love to hate, a guy who is arrogant, rich, cocky, the works, and what would be the benefit of turning him face, him and the show? Getting heat off his back until they realise he is so much better as a face, they could do the same thing in development without the later disaster, it would all be harmless. MVP as a heel, just does not click together, it just does not work. No-body would buy him as a heel.

Although I agree, however, that Mr. Kennedy (...Kennedy...) would work well as a face, he has a good look about him - the look of a superstar, he's charismatic, good on the stick, and he could easily work a crowd, make them cheer, make them chant, make them laugh and turn them against his opponent in a heartbeat. Kennedy is the full package, apart from the fact that he is an absolute mediocre wrestler. His style is something I don't really like, more of a showman than a wrestler, like The Rock, I never really liked the way he wrestled either.

Umaga as a face would simply be disastrous. His dominating heel character is sheer brilliance and has been so because WWE haven't given up on it after a couple of months, they've kept it going, doing smart things like making his opponent, say Jeff Hardy, look like he has a chance and then BAM Umaga beats them at the PPV. WWE would throw that away by turning him into a face, plus they would loose one of their best heels. The only way that it would work if he were to be against a huge heel, him being a tweener and him still keeping him dominant streak and the fans are way behind him to beat down the heel, JBL per se.

And Shawn Michaels ultimately makes an excellent heel. Especially in Canada, he can get heat faster than a microwave. Michaels has a great aura about him, if you were a backstage worker, you just know that Michaels could do just about anything, he could be a face one night and then a heel the next and he could pull it off like no other person on the planet could. When he is a heel, his arrogance and his confidence are magnified a tenfold and when he is like that, I absolutely love it, I don't boo him like the other fans, I just think, that guy is an excellent heel, an excellent worker.

Things went downhill at the Elimination Chambers, two of the most predictable matches I've ever encountered. But they can easily get themselves back up on their feet - they just have to go the right way about it.

Predictable? Thats a bit harsh. There were plenty of guys who could have won the Elimination Chamber for RAW, there was HHH, Hardy, Jericho, JBL, Michaels and Umaga. ANYONE of those guys could have won it, granted, it was doubtful that Jericho, JBL or Umaga would headline Wrestlemania bit Michaels, HHH and Hardy were impossible to decipher. And the SD Chamber? Just because two guys in that match were the only real contenders does not make it predictable, the ending to that match was fantastic and un-predictable.

[Simpleton.]

I have revised some of my points, and I will for the most part agree with everythign apart from the following quotes.

Umaga as a face would simply be disastrous. His dominating heel character is sheer brilliance and has been so because WWE haven't given up on it after a couple of months, they've kept it going, doing smart things like making his opponent, say Jeff Hardy, look like he has a chance and then BAM Umaga beats them at the PPV. WWE would throw that away by turning him into a face, plus they would loose one of their best heels. The only way that it would work if he were to be against a huge heel, him being a tweener and him still keeping him dominant streak and the fans are way behind him to beat down the heel, JBL per se.

Umaga doesn't seem to be a dominating heel at the moment. He jobbed at WrestleMania when he really deserves some sort of push. And form the way you have written it seems to me that you believe with dominance there must be a heel aspect to the character. Diesel worked way better as a face than he did a heel. Batista, granted, is better as a heel, but he has mostly been face and it has pretty much worked. The WWE need more faces imo, and Umaga would be a good choice for that. He is dominant, he can be dominated, and he is a great worker. He probably would succeed more as a heel, but it's always worth a try. You can't knock something until you try it.

Predictable? Thats a bit harsh. There were plenty of guys who could have won the Elimination Chamber for RAW, there was HHH, Hardy, Jericho, JBL, Michaels and Umaga. ANYONE of those guys could have won it, granted, it was doubtful that Jericho, JBL or Umaga would headline Wrestlemania bit Michaels, HHH and Hardy were impossible to decipher. And the SD Chamber? Just because two guys in that match were the only real contenders does not make it predictable, the ending to that match was fantastic and un-predictable.

Harsh? It's totally true. Triple H was obviously walking out of the RAW Chamber as the winner. I mean, he was run through all of those trials to qualify for the Rumble just to lose to Cena, the WWE wouldn't dismiss him that quickly. Also, if Hardy did win the Chamber, he'd be facing Orton at WrestleMania, which isn't that fresh considering they fought at the Royal Rumble. Anyway, Hardy, in my eyes, was always going to be in the MITB match since this year began. As for the SmackDown chamber, that ending was boring and done before. I point you in the direction of Summerslam 1994, Paul Bearer's Undertaker vs. Ted DiBiase's fake Undertaker. The fake Taker had the real Taker in a tombstone position. The real Taker flipped over and performed his own version. The SmackDown Chamber really echoed that.

The buildup to WrestleMania was disappointing. I can't see Cena in the title picture for a lot longer. On topic, he NEEDS to turn heel. Cena was awesome as a heel some five/six years ago. But knowing the WWE, Cena won't turn heel, or at least he won't for a very long time.

[Gair]

I think the only thing that defines a good wrestler, is his "signature moves".

Look at Austin "Lou Thesz Press, and cracking his fist into his opponent" (Granted, Austin didn't create it, but he made it his...) and the "Stunner"... Speaks for itself really...

The Rock. "The People's Elbow, The Rock Bottom, The Eyebrow, The Catchphrases"... the guy was the complete package..."

Cena... Now, he has the "5-Knuckle Shuffle" and he has the "F-U" which is a good start... but the fans hate him, and the moves do not allow him to get over... The "STFU" does my pissing head in... he doesn't suit it, and it looks atrocious when he applies it, so untidy!

Cena would be better off as a heel, basically because it would show that the WWE had decent creativity, and are willing to lose money, in order to gain fans...

Honestly, swerves are the best way to make someone heel, and I felt that if Cena helped Orton win the title at WM, would have been a huge WM moment... but we all know it was meant for Hardy...

Shame really.

[Simpleton.]

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree that to define a good wrestler is to look at their finishing move. None of the Rock's finishers are going to knock you down enough for a three count. The People's Elbow is as credible as the Worm.

[Gair]

I didn't mean that the finishing move is devastatingly credible...

It's the popularity of the moves, that define how good a wrestler is...

Everyone knows Hogans leg drop, and his "hulking up" shite...

[Simpleton.]

Hogan couldn't wrestle, that was plain to see. I just think the best wrestlers are the patient people, like the Undertaker [though I dislike him he has great stamina for a guy of his age and size] and Shawn Michaels who have stuck with the WWE through and through.

[nidge182]

I think you pretty much need the whole package to make it big, look at the biggest wrestlers over the past 10 years

The Rock-Started as a heel then his mic skills just got him on the fans side even though he was a heel, good moveset, had great rivalries with Triple H, Ken Shamrock and Stone Cold when he was just a mid card wrestler as he improved then we had the great title rivalries with Triple H, Stone Cold and Mankind and these were the greatest times the WWE has had in recent memory.

Stone Cold - Started as a heel once again his actions and mic skills (a lot of people think he sucks when he is on the mic but i disagree) he was supposed to remain a heel but the fans just loved the attitude, ok move set as he was a brawler but with his style the move set was ok, brilliant finisher. When he was a mid card wrestler he had great rivalries with Owen Hart and Bret Hart. Then went into the title picture and had great rivalry with HBK and The Rock and Undertaker and Triple H but most of all Vince in an era which will never be bettered.

Triple H - Well a bit of bias here as im a huge Triple H fan.
He started off as a heel once again and to be honest has had his greatest matches as a heel. Brilliant move set (bias lol) and a great finisher.
When he was a mid card wrestler he was in great rivalries with Owen Hart and The Rock, then when in the title picture he had fantastic rivalries with Mick Foley (in whatever personality) The Rock, Stone Cold and Kurt Angle.

I use these three as they had great rivalries and matches throughout there careers and always had the best opponents to work with, they all started off as heels and through the audience they changed and in my oppinion got a whole lot better. John Cena started as a heel (i know he had the match against Kurt on his debut where he was a face) and was great on the mic and the crowd begged for him to turn face and he did and in my oppinion he has done all he can as a face, its time to mix things up a bit. John Cena has come through in an era where there are no Rocks, Stone Colds, Owen Harts, Bret Harts Ken Shamrocks so he has managed to get through wrestling people like Matt Hardy, JBL, Booker T and Big Show, all pretty forgetable rivalries in my oppinion. Cena needs to be heel and then we will see what he can offer now that he is in the big time.

[BenKilledThePromQueen]

The People's Elbow is as credible as the Worm.

Truer words have never been spoken.

What happened to the days when wrestlers were judged on their ability? Who cares how much merchandise they sell? Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather rip my d*ck off, sharpen it and stab myself in the neck than watch Ric Flair, John Cena, The Bogeyman or The Great Khali wrestle.

Ric Flair - Legend, no doubt. Can he wrestle? No. Does he look like a flabby old man that can't let go of a dream? yes.

John Cena - Can he wrestle? For sure. Does he have ability? Bucket loads. Does he have a shitty gimmick? Yes! Does his two finishing moves consist of a) Picking someone up... and then putting them down again? and b) Lying on someone and at the very most, making them slightly uncomfortable? yessss!

The Bogeyman - Is a bogeyman for, christ sake.

The Great Khali - He wasn't even good in "The Longest Yard". He should stay closely guarded by the pages of "Ripley's: Believe it or not"

Wrestlers like Paul London, The Amazing Red, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Nick Mondo, Sonjay Dutt and Jimmy Yang are a dying breed. THAT is wrestling. THAT is sports entertainment. It's called World Wrestling Entertainment, not World Gimmick and Merchandising Entertainment.

[/rant]

[Drakon]

I agree with what this guy said, 110%.


The 10% is because of our sig >_>

[jackmcmanus21]

I think it would be the best idea to turn Cena heel now. Like it was said before, most knowledgeable fans disdain him (mostly because its the "cool" thing to do). I could see him doing the rap gimmick again and coming out and talking smack on HHH, HBK and those likes. He could make an unbelievable heel, much like the Rock back when he was heel.

[Jerichoholic]

I think it would be the best idea to turn Cena heel now. Like it was said before, most knowledgeable fans disdain him (mostly because its the "cool" thing to do). I could see him doing the rap gimmick again and coming out and talking smack on HHH, HBK and those likes. He could make an unbelievable heel, much like the Rock back when he was heel.
The thing is WWE still think us fans love Cena, when 80%+ hate him. Him going back to the rap gimmick will just make me laugh. I mean he isnt cool as it is and to try to do that rap crap again, no thanks!

I really cant see Cena being face for much longer though, with the way fans boo him when his music hits the arena!

[Gair]

I really couldn't give a stuff about the wrestling aspect of wrestling anymore...

I prefer the proper good storylines, where they spend shedloads of money to keep the spectators interested.. DX Express Bus Explosion etc...

Wrestlers are indeed a dying breed, but it's entertainment... and they need to make it entertaining... because frankly, right now... it isn't!

Gair

[BenKilledThePromQueen]

I agree totally, at the end of the day, it's all entertainment.

But the title reads World Wrestling Entertainment. I think they need to find the balance between both, because they seem to always have either or.

[Gair]

I agree totally, at the end of the day, it's all entertainment.

But the title reads World Wrestling Entertainment. I think they need to find the balance between both, because they seem to always have either or.

Yeah, the decent era's have indeed found this balance...

To be honest, I think the best wrestlers, have had the best storylines...

I mean, look at Austin, The Rock and Hogan, if they were compared on their wrestling ability... would wrestling be watchable today?

Storylines are a huge part of wrestling, and if they cannot make people return and have a decent storyline, like they attempted with Jericho and JBL... then it's appalling, and WWE will collapse.

[rdarnz]

Wrestlers like Paul London, The Amazing Red, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Nick Mondo, Sonjay Dutt and Jimmy Yang are a dying breed. THAT is wrestling.[/rant]

That is wrestling?

I love to see awesome spots as much as the next guy, but of those guys you named I'd argue that only Christopher Daniels has a true grasp of wrestling. He understands the pyschology of hitting a move and then waiting before getting up, he understands the art of selling a move. That is wrestling.

Amazing Red, AJ Styles, Sonjay Dutt, Nick Mondo, Paul London... These are all guys that are taking away from the sport in my opinion. These guys push the boundaries - yeah. But it's partly their fault that the fans nowadays expect too much. You look at spot monkeys like Jeff Hardy - he got over mainly on the Swanton Bomb, the Whisper In The Wind... Both moves that are dangerous by nature and put performers at risk.

Paul London and AJ Styles in particular can be hit by a big move but spring back up the next moment and backflip onto someone?! That isn't wrestling.

Sooo... Before we start tearing people like John Cena and Ric Flair to shreds, think about their grasp of other aspects of the sport. Cena and Flair can engage with the fans, they understand how to keep a match flowing, how to keep a crowd interested... Alright, there's guys that have done better... The Rock amongst others, I'd argue had one of the greatest grasps of in-ring psychology of anyone, same goes for Sting... All I'm trying to say really is not to judge wrestlers based on a couple of moves or a bland gimmick.

Wrestling is about selling a move and making it seem real and engaging with the fans whilst doing so. So to me, your list of great wrestlers aren't really that great.

[BenKilledThePromQueen]

That is wrestling?

I love to see awesome spots as much as the next guy, but of those guys you named I'd argue that only Christopher Daniels has a true grasp of wrestling. He understands the pyschology of hitting a move and then waiting before getting up, he understands the art of selling a move. That is wrestling.

Amazing Red, AJ Styles, Sonjay Dutt, Nick Mondo, Paul London... These are all guys that are taking away from the sport in my opinion. These guys push the boundaries - yeah. But it's partly their fault that the fans nowadays expect too much. You look at spot monkeys like Jeff Hardy - he got over mainly on the Swanton Bomb, the Whisper In The Wind... Both moves that are dangerous by nature and put performers at risk.

Paul London and AJ Styles in particular can be hit by a big move but spring back up the next moment and backflip onto someone?! That isn't wrestling.

Sooo... Before we start tearing people like John Cena and Ric Flair to shreds, think about their grasp of other aspects of the sport. Cena and Flair can engage with the fans, they understand how to keep a match flowing, how to keep a crowd interested... Alright, there's guys that have done better... The Rock amongst others, I'd argue had one of the greatest grasps of in-ring psychology of anyone, same goes for Sting... All I'm trying to say really is not to judge wrestlers based on a couple of moves or a bland gimmick.

Wrestling is about selling a move and making it seem real and engaging with the fans whilst doing so. So to me, your list of great wrestlers aren't really that great.

I'm sorry, but wrestling to me has never been about selling the move. Yeah, at the end of the day, it does make a big difference to the whole 'story' that the match is trying to convey, but I think the wrestling itself has to play SOME sort of major role.

Maybe I am just a spot whore, but the point I'm trying to make is that people keep looking past wrestlers like Ric Flair (sorry Ric, you're stuck as my case study), and see a gimmick, or good mic skills. But when I look at Ric Flair, I see flabby... old... weak... and unable to make a decent move. Can he sell? Quite frankly, no. That whole "walk two steps and fall down thing" is just ridiculous.

On the other hand, I agree totally where you're coming from on the whole 'taking a massive bump and recovering too quickly' thing. It's just as bad as Christian... who sells everything like he's on a f*cking latenight infomercial.

Like i said, that's just my opinion. I just think if they had some good wrestlers, with solid gimicks and good mic skills, they'd be onto something big.